Quick question for the 40k players about colours and codex for a hypothetical CSM army.
The theme is a non-stereotypical Khorne army which celebrates Khorne's aspect as a WAR God, not just a batshit melee God. Overall feel is gritty and 'realistic', hardcore soldiers turned to Khorne in the line of duty, using tactics and experience to spill blood and take skulls.
The colour is striking slightly orange-ish red, black details, green weapon casings/misc other details. In other words, the old school 2nd Ed Khorne CSM scheme.
Playstyle is heavy armoured assault, with at least two Vindicators spearheading an assault backed by plenty of ranged firepower and one or two potent assault-focused units to charge first into the breach (Remember, all aspects of the War God). The plan is to allow a Turn 1 heavy weapons barrage followed up by the armoured push in most games in an attempt to eliminate key targets, so every squad that can take a heavy weapon probably will take one.
Which ruleset is better for this army, Khorne-aligned, Berzerker/Defiler/Daemon-assisted CSM, or Razorbacks, Thunderfire Cannon and Combat-Squadded SM? In the event of going SM, the Razorbacks are more likely to gradually advance carrying the sergeant/special weapon, while the heavy weapon and bolter portion stays back and keeps shooting. +1 attack Chapter Banner in an Honour Guard squad will serve as a counts-as Icon of Khorne.
Theme will also be decided by Codex used: The CSM Codex will make these a splinter World Eaters warband, while the SM Codex will make them a renegade chapter slowly falling into Khorne worship. The Themes are NOT interchangeable owing to thematic wargear differences (CSM with twin-linked bolters instead of storm bolters, etc)
These guys are nothing but extra models cobbled together from spare parts as a fun project for now, but should I ever make them into a full-blown army, I want to decide beforehand what rules I would use mainly so I know whether to give the normal guys an extra CCW or not. Also, so that I can know what units to bother making, etc.
Thanks for the help, and sorry for the unusually terse, clipped writing style: It's been a long day and I'm about to hit the sack hard. Ian out.
i say go for SM, it would be more interesting to see a hero falls rather then already-chaotic CSM.
Would u intrigue by another khorne army, which by default is strikingly colored and obviously seeking blood to satisfy their gods? or rather a striking-themed SM and their brutish-look which not supposed to appear on a Emperors finest?
Well why not try working stuff around Blood Angels Codex instead.. You can just say u are just simply using BA rules for ur theme army.
I reckon Death Company can fit into the mad rage Khorne Berzerker, Or u can even claim the Sanguine Priest is a Khorne Lord that instill frenzy to his Men...
bloodfox wrote on Dec 7, '10, edited on Dec 7, '10
@Zaki: Well, the SM Codex would certainly give me a unique way to portray Chaos, with the modern Imperial wargear and so on. Plus, the playstyle WOULD be different to what I'm used to when it comes to Marine-type armies. Thanks, I'll consider it strongly!
But as for which one is by far more intriguing? Honestly, they're both still equal in my eyes for now; Imagine, if you will, a more far-gone army using the CSM Codex: Growling tanks and towering Daemon Engines (Defilers) churn forwards, explosions shaking the ground and supporting fire lighting up the air as the veteran Khornate warriors inside the steadily advancing transports mutter prayers, load their bolters and rev their chain weapons for the coming slaughter. A wall of guns, blood, steel and nightmares come to wage war. I find both equally interesting, which is why I can't decide and have to ask you guys in the first place. :D
@redeye: Yeah, true, I hadn't considered the BA Codex yet...I assumed the army was based upon too many 'gimmicky' things and centered around jump packs in a way that wouldn't really fit the heavy armour theme I had in mind, but looking at it carefully there does certainly seem to be ways to do it.
I guess another plus is that DC armed with bolters or normal Tac squads come down with the Red Thirst are a great way to represent what I want in terms of the 'tactical' veteran Khornate warrior who's about more than just chopping things up, but bloodthirsty all the same. Thanks, I will consider this too!
@ian: i think anything bloody and gory would be interesting to u my friend :p but knowing u for the past few years, i believe u always go for something different from normal, traitor guards or slaneesh marines(that most people didn't use) :) well, unless u had split personality that i didn't know of!
@Zaki: Something different from normal is precisely it! Which is why whichever Codex I use, I want to stress the fact that this is NOT your typical chock-full of Berzerkers melee-maniac Khorne army. I find the portrayal of Khorne has been too skewed in that direction over the years...After all, if he's the God of War then Khorne would embody all aspects of battle. Plus, gameplay wise, simply smashing into melee ASAP would get old for me sooner or later. More possibilities too, modeling wise: Brutal looking Khornate guns and so on.
@ALL: One more thing I forgot to mention about the playstyle: If it's the loyalist SM Codex, then the playstyle would be slightly Vietnam-era US military based: Armoured push supported by Land Speeders playing the role of gunships/attack choppers, with possibly infiltrating special-forces style traitor scouts who could infiltrate or be inserted via Land Speeder Storm. CSM Codex will be slightly more traditional siegebreaker style as described.
If you really want unique, try and find that pre-Heresy era ruleset for all Legions that was around back in 4th Ed. If you time the army just right, you can make your Khorne army just before Kharn goes bonkers and kills everyone on that snowy day. This would be a serious challenge due to their playstyle limitations, and you get a massive modelling challenge as you will have to find references to the old-school armour designs etc.
bloodfox wrote on Dec 8, '10, edited on Dec 8, '10
See, this is the problem right here...I take a look in the BA Codex as redeye suggested and ended up thinking I could make a cool Marine air-cav Khorne army (Think Vietnam vets gone bad) with it, and now I stumble upon the idea of delving into the history of the World Eaters.
Once you get past the stereotypical SKULLS FOR TEH SKULL THRONE mindless vision of Khorne, it can be a surprisingly deep theme. Not to mention everyone's mentioning EVERYTHING EQUALLY. Grrr. :D
Oh, and old-school armour designs are already something I spend a lot of time hawking over for my EC's, so the armour won't prove a problem...Actually, no matter which one I do, I know one thing I want is truly old-school style Khorne: Back in 2nd Edition it wasn't just berzerkers, but normal Khorne Chaos Marines with bolters too who had the trademark 'Khornate bunny ears', along with berzerkers occasionally seen with normal horned helms.
Might be just nostalgia, but I LOVE those helm/armour combinations, with the striking 2nd Ed bright Khornate scheme.
UPDATE: After flipping through the Blood Angels book, I've come to the conclusion that I'm either using the CSM Codex or the BA Codex, for a Stormraven-focused Air Cavalry style army. If I go CSM it will be bright red, but if I go BA, there's a chance I'll instead choose a more subdued, military-ish olive drab and desert yellow scheme (See Raptors Chapter for something similiar) to match.
So, please continue to let me know what all of you think; Which one of these choices seems cooler to you, and why?
